Talk:Creatures - Revision history

imported>Tlosk: /* Feb 2010 Updates */

2010-03-16T02:27:31Z

Feb 2010 Updates

← Older revision	Revision as of 02:27, 16 March 2010
(No difference)

imported>Tlosk: /* Feb 2010 Updates */

2010-03-16T02:27:31Z

Feb 2010 Updates

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:27, 16 March 2010
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	--{{User:Tlosk/Sig}} 21:27, February 24, 2010 (UTC)		--{{User:Tlosk/Sig}} 21:27, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
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			{{Post
			\| Indent = :::
			\| Text = I finished updating the creature type pages with the exception of [[Human]] and [[Tumerok]], I wasn't sure about how to handle some of the subclass distinctions so will need to read more or you can do if you want. If there's a way we could recategorize the ninjas so there isn't a backslash in the name, whether it be splitting them into two subclasses, finding a new name or replacing the slash with some other separator it would help avoid some technical issues. For creatures that have a subclass that is a regular class (like undead ruschk, or simulacrum tuskers), I added them to both class pages, appearing under a subclass section for their nonprimary page. In general when there were multiple versions with the same name I broke them out into individual pages with a linked disambiguation page at the actual name. Where the creatures had different levels I used a level suffix, for ones that had the same level or where a version was only found in a single place/quest I used a location or quest suffix. I may have missed some though. There were a couple conventions on the level suffix I came across so while I was updating them I just gave the number, but probably "Creature (Level 10)" would be the best format? I can go back and normalize them if not "Creature (10)". And you may want to glance through the [[Undead]], I probably misclassified a few.

			Now that all the pages are a uniform format I can update them once a month or so to catch any new data from the individual creature pages that hasn't been added to the type pages automatically with a script that parses an [[Special:Export\|Export]] file.--{{User:Tlosk/Sig}} 02:27, March 16, 2010 (UTC)
			}}

	== Other Creature Icons ==		== Other Creature Icons ==

imported>Tlosk at 21:27, 24 February 2010

2010-02-24T21:27:37Z

← Older revision	Revision as of 21:27, 24 February 2010
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imported>Tlosk at 21:27, 24 February 2010

2010-02-24T21:27:37Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:27, 24 February 2010
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			__ToC__

	== Feb 2010 Updates ==		== Feb 2010 Updates ==
	<b>Creature Class Template</b><br>		{{Post
	First, I'd like to discuss creature class pages themselves. I recently updated the [[Simulacrum]] page, using our newest creature class ([[Gear Knight]]) as the template. I like the cleaner look for the stat table, and I think we should updated the {{tl\|Creature Stat Table Format}} to this new format. I also like the use of icons rather than text for listing ~~trohpies~~, and the [[Creature Class Template]] should be updated to reflect this.		\| Indent = :
			\| Text = <b>Creature Class Template</b><br>
			First, I'd like to discuss creature class pages themselves. I recently updated the [[Simulacrum]] page, using our newest creature class ([[Gear Knight]]) as the template. I like the cleaner look for the stat table, and I think we should updated the {{tl\|Creature Stat Table Format}} to this new format. I also like the use of icons rather than text for listing trophies, and the [[Creature Class Template]] should be updated to reflect this.
	<br><br>Overall, the gear knight page is a good new design for creature class pages. The only thing I would change is the images section. First, I would change the name to "Art & Images" so it covers a broader range of images and matches the header name I am using in various culture pages. Second, I would change it from a borderless table to the better looking and easier to create/edit <nowiki><gallery></nowiki> tags.		<br><br>Overall, the gear knight page is a good new design for creature class pages. The only thing I would change is the images section. First, I would change the name to "Art & Images" so it covers a broader range of images and matches the header name I am using in various culture pages. Second, I would change it from a borderless table to the better looking and easier to create/edit <nowiki><gallery></nowiki> tags.

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	<br><br>Now, I have recently separated the [[Aun Tumerok\|Aun]] and [[Hea Tumerok\|Hea]] from the main [[Tumerok]] page and category. I did this because Aun and Hea are unique creature types, and should not be confused with the plain "Tumerok" creature class, seeing as that is the only class that Tumerok Slayer works on. So I think a good starting point for the creature page would be to only list unique creature classes. However, there are many types of creatures that, while part of a different class, would probably benefit from their own unique listing. For example, both Mu-Miyah and Falatacot are "Undead", but it would be nice to be able to view just those types.		<br><br>Now, I have recently separated the [[Aun Tumerok\|Aun]] and [[Hea Tumerok\|Hea]] from the main [[Tumerok]] page and category. I did this because Aun and Hea are unique creature types, and should not be confused with the plain "Tumerok" creature class, seeing as that is the only class that Tumerok Slayer works on. So I think a good starting point for the creature page would be to only list unique creature classes. However, there are many types of creatures that, while part of a different class, would probably benefit from their own unique listing. For example, both Mu-Miyah and Falatacot are "Undead", but it would be nice to be able to view just those types.
	<br><br>So I propose this:		<br><br>So I propose this:
	<br><br>The main list (the icons+links) will list all the unique creature class types, with some exceptions under "misc". Below that, separated by a line, we will have listings for sub-classes. Below that, ~~separted~~ by another line, will be the no class and misc class links.		<br><br>The main list (the icons+links) will list all the unique creature class types, with some exceptions under "misc". Below that, separated by a line, we will have listings for sub-classes. Below that, separated by another line, will be the no class and misc class links.


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	<br><br>Unknown is harder to deal with, since it truly is the misc. creature class. It seems anything they didn't want to throw in another class got Unknown. While it certainly has the number of entries to justify its own class page, the individual creatures really have nothing in common. So I suggest Unknown stays in Misc.		<br><br>Unknown is harder to deal with, since it truly is the misc. creature class. It seems anything they didn't want to throw in another class got Unknown. While it certainly has the number of entries to justify its own class page, the individual creatures really have nothing in common. So I suggest Unknown stays in Misc.

	--[[User:An Adventurer\|An Adventurer]] 17:30, February 24, 2010 (UTC)		I have put up a rough draft of what I am proposing here: [[User:An Adventurer/Sandbox 2]]

			--[[User:An Adventurer\|An Adventurer]] 18:31, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
			}}

			{{Post
			\| Indent = ::
			\| Text = Those are all great ideas. I'd originally been waiting for Wikia to approve or disapprove the Autoincrement extension before updating the creature pages and they did that a few weeks ago so there's nothing holding us back now. When I did the Gear Knight page I made a script that can pull current information from the individual pages (using a recent database dump) and populate a table. So if we'd like to modify the values we use in the summary table now would be the time to do that. I remember that originally we had the defensive stats but replaced them with health/stam/mana mainly because almost none had stats recorded. Also we might want to include some indication on Tier rating where it is also region specific. To make it easier to edit we might also want to use a row template. Once we finalize a format I can also make a script that can update with new stats/creatures using a single import file that can be run every few months to avoid having to keep them up to date manually.

			For the criteria to use on making an individual class page perhaps we could just go with if more than 3 creatures in game display that class they should have their own page?

	I have ~~put up a rough draft of what I am proposing here: [[User:An Adventurer/Sandbox 2]] --[[User:An Adventurer\|An Adventurer]] 18:31, February 24, 2010~~ (~~UTC~~)		And for the food icon I made the cheeseburger icon but have never liked it (seems too modern hehe), and was thinking the pancake icon from the throwing icons would be more appropriate since they're all from that quest.

	----		Lastly for the Creature page I like how you've divided and think it might be good to divide it into actual page sections and I'd also like to add an info section where we can describe useful info about creatures and their history in ac (like how changes to IDing creatures, how to determine attack/defense stats, and links to stuff like loot tiers, spawn maps, lenses, etc).

			We can use the Gear Knight page to fiddle with until we have it how we'd like all pages to be.

			--{{User:Tlosk/Sig}} 21:27, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
			}}
			== Other Creature Icons ==

	And on a related note, here's the other icons (some creatures, some quest items that might be repurposed) I have in case they are of use in the future:		And on a related note, here's the other icons (some creatures, some quest items that might be repurposed) I have in case they are of use in the future:
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	To give a new name right click on image and save with new name, then reupload.		To give a new name right click on image and save with new name, then reupload.

	~~----~~		== Icons ==

	Glad you pointed that out, I'd made an icon extractor while doing the creature icons and it wasn't until later when I was working on the weapons for the rare icons that I figured out how to get the outlining to work right so some of these are missing that, so I went back and redid several of them (like the drudge, they look a lot better now).--[[User:Tlosk\|Tlosk]] 08:43, 24 June 2008 (CDT)		Glad you pointed that out, I'd made an icon extractor while doing the creature icons and it wasn't until later when I was working on the weapons for the rare icons that I figured out how to get the outlining to work right so some of these are missing that, so I went back and redid several of them (like the drudge, they look a lot better now).--[[User:Tlosk\|Tlosk]] 08:43, 24 June 2008 (CDT)
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	Now that the Aerbax arc is finished and no other new classes were introduced (as was the earlier concern) I changed Paradox-Touched back to what it's listed as in game, Paradox Olthoi. Given the true class difference (Olthoi Slayer weapons don't work on them) unlike the softer distinction of the Hea and Aun or the Gotrok I think it should be justified. Also there's several variants for the knath, so I consolidated on what is listed in game (Knathtead). I also consolidated the elementals and added robust cross linking (they are still separate but just Elemental listed in the table). The separate classes were only really distinguished very early in the game (almost all later additions were just plain Elemental) and there aren't many exemplars, not enough to justify discrete links in the table (especially given their unwieldy names, and since Elemental would be the natural first place to look anyways).--[[User:Tlosk\|Tlosk]] 17:57, 23 March 2008 (CDT)		Now that the Aerbax arc is finished and no other new classes were introduced (as was the earlier concern) I changed Paradox-Touched back to what it's listed as in game, Paradox Olthoi. Given the true class difference (Olthoi Slayer weapons don't work on them) unlike the softer distinction of the Hea and Aun or the Gotrok I think it should be justified. Also there's several variants for the knath, so I consolidated on what is listed in game (Knathtead). I also consolidated the elementals and added robust cross linking (they are still separate but just Elemental listed in the table). The separate classes were only really distinguished very early in the game (almost all later additions were just plain Elemental) and there aren't many exemplars, not enough to justify discrete links in the table (especially given their unwieldy names, and since Elemental would be the natural first place to look anyways).--[[User:Tlosk\|Tlosk]] 17:57, 23 March 2008 (CDT)

	~~----~~		== Classes ==

	I removed the apparition and empyrean classes, added Gotrok, and put in a link to the new misc. creature class page.		I removed the apparition and empyrean classes, added Gotrok, and put in a link to the new misc. creature class page.

	--[[User:An Adventurer\|An Adventurer]] 23:53, 17 March 2008 (CDT)		--[[User:An Adventurer\|An Adventurer]] 23:53, 17 March 2008 (CDT)
	~~----~~
			== Pluralization ==

imported>An Adventurer at 18:31, 24 February 2010

2010-02-24T18:31:02Z

← Older revision	Revision as of 18:31, 24 February 2010
(No difference)

imported>An Adventurer at 18:31, 24 February 2010

2010-02-24T18:31:02Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:31, 24 February 2010
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	--[[User:An Adventurer\|An Adventurer]] 17:30, February 24, 2010 (UTC)		--[[User:An Adventurer\|An Adventurer]] 17:30, February 24, 2010 (UTC)

			I have put up a rough draft of what I am proposing here: [[User:An Adventurer/Sandbox 2]] --[[User:An Adventurer\|An Adventurer]] 18:31, February 24, 2010 (UTC)

	----		----

imported>An Adventurer at 17:30, 24 February 2010

2010-02-24T17:30:50Z

← Older revision	Revision as of 17:30, 24 February 2010
(No difference)

imported>An Adventurer at 17:30, 24 February 2010

2010-02-24T17:30:50Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:30, 24 February 2010
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			== Feb 2010 Updates ==
			<b>Creature Class Template</b><br>
			First, I'd like to discuss creature class pages themselves. I recently updated the [[Simulacrum]] page, using our newest creature class ([[Gear Knight]]) as the template. I like the cleaner look for the stat table, and I think we should updated the {{tl\|Creature Stat Table Format}} to this new format. I also like the use of icons rather than text for listing trohpies, and the [[Creature Class Template]] should be updated to reflect this.
			<br><br>Overall, the gear knight page is a good new design for creature class pages. The only thing I would change is the images section. First, I would change the name to "Art & Images" so it covers a broader range of images and matches the header name I am using in various culture pages. Second, I would change it from a borderless table to the better looking and easier to create/edit <nowiki><gallery></nowiki> tags.


			<b>Creature Page</b><br>
			Next, I'd like to discuss what exactly gets listed on the [[Creatures]] page and what counts as a creature class. Let me start out by saying I think the primary objective of the Creature page should be to help people locate the creature/creature type they are looking for as easily as possible.
			<br><br>Now, I have recently separated the [[Aun Tumerok\|Aun]] and [[Hea Tumerok\|Hea]] from the main [[Tumerok]] page and category. I did this because Aun and Hea are unique creature types, and should not be confused with the plain "Tumerok" creature class, seeing as that is the only class that Tumerok Slayer works on. So I think a good starting point for the creature page would be to only list unique creature classes. However, there are many types of creatures that, while part of a different class, would probably benefit from their own unique listing. For example, both Mu-Miyah and Falatacot are "Undead", but it would be nice to be able to view just those types.
			<br><br>So I propose this:
			<br><br>The main list (the icons+links) will list all the unique creature class types, with some exceptions under "misc". Below that, separated by a line, we will have listings for sub-classes. Below that, separted by another line, will be the no class and misc class links.


			<b>Subclasses</b><br>
			For the subclass listings I mentioned above, I think the best way to handle them is for the subclasses to be links to their category page. For example "Burun Ruuk" will link to [[:Category:Ruuk]]. I suggest this because I want to avoid having to maintain multiple creature stat tables. All burun will already have their stats on the table on the main [[Burun]] page, so there is no need to list them yet again on unique pages for Ruuk, Guruk, and Kukuur. Instead, I propose that for all creature classes with apparent sub-classes, we add a "Type" column to the stat table, just like we have a "Race" column on [[Undead]] (which would be changed to type). This way, all stats for that specific creature class are listed on one page, while they can still be sorted by their sub-classes if desired.


			<b>Unique vs. Misc</b><br>
			Last thing I'd like to discuss is what should be counted as its own class (and placed on the main list) vs what should be stuck under misc. Specifically, should Food, Harvest, and Unknown be granted their own Creature Class pages?
			<br><br>Food and Harvest are less serious classes, and have few entries. But then again, [[Target]], [[Scarecrow]], and [[Snowman]] are also not so serious, have few entries, but are given their own class pages. In addition, while [[Chicken]] is a serious class, it only has 4 entries. So I suggest that Food and Harvest get their own Creature Class pages.
			<br><br>Unknown is harder to deal with, since it truly is the misc. creature class. It seems anything they didn't want to throw in another class got Unknown. While it certainly has the number of entries to justify its own class page, the individual creatures really have nothing in common. So I suggest Unknown stays in Misc.

			--[[User:An Adventurer\|An Adventurer]] 17:30, February 24, 2010 (UTC)

			----

	And on a related note, here's the other icons (some creatures, some quest items that might be repurposed) I have in case they are of use in the future:		And on a related note, here's the other icons (some creatures, some quest items that might be repurposed) I have in case they are of use in the future:

imported>Tlosk at 16:19, 25 September 2009

2009-09-25T16:19:11Z

← Older revision	Revision as of 16:19, 25 September 2009
(No difference)

imported>Tlosk at 16:19, 25 September 2009

2009-09-25T16:19:11Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:19, 25 September 2009
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	\| [[File:Zombie Icon.png]]		\| [[File:Zombie Icon.png]]
	\| [[File:Crystal 4 Icon.png]]		\| [[File:Crystal 4 Icon.png]]
			\| [[File:Gear Knight 2 Icon.png]]
	\|}		\|}